The three trucks I have looked at have had the 21N08 update, so my question is.If you were in my position, would you pull the trigger on any of those trucks? This makes it easy for them to compare symptoms, find solutions and unlock the best-hidden features in their trucks. t seems like every other Raptor and Ford 10R80 has these issues. Your mechanic can hook up a diagnostic tool to your car to determine if this is the issue. Can the engine shudder 21N08 issue be fixed without reprogramming the PCM? 2. @Lawnpro have you changed your spark plugs yet? This issue can be uncomfortable and potentially dangerous for the driver and passengers, and it can also lead to reduced performance and fuel efficiency. It involves surveying customers to identify areas where they are dissatisfied and then taking action to improve those areas. Program #21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER; Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program issued. I have three trucks in mind that I am looking at 2017, 2018 and a 2019. We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. The following errors occurred with your submission, Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans, Aftermarket Products, Reviews & Installation, Suggestions, Comments & Questions about the Forum, Send a private message to VelocityBlue2020, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Ford TSB 21N08 Make: Ford Number: 21N08 Date: 10/29/2021 Title: PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder Summary: In a very low percentage of the affected vehicles, an engine shudder may develop after receiving the PCM update provided in program 21B10. Customer Satisfaction Program 21N08 Certain 2017-2020 Model Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles Equipped with a 3.5L GTDI Engine PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder LABOR ALLOWANCES Description Labor Operation Labor Time Test drive to verify engine shudder and reprogram PCM to last revision. Sounds pretty promising Sounds pretty promising This is because the PCM reprogramming process addresses the root cause of the issue and can help to prevent the issue from recurring in the future. Oh ok perhaps a good point. If Im not in the garage creating content, youll find me outside, running, canoeing, and traveling. Hey! Hi guys, I am pretty new F150 owner (2019 new to me bought about a month ago) and noticed on my ford pass app that I have two notices in my recalls section: CSP 21N03 CAM PHASERS and 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER. You are using an out of date browser. Im a little more willing to whip out the AAA card for the extra fun factor and luxury of a Raptor. We are talking about millions of trucks and SUVs! Cam Phaser replacements costs at least $1200, depending on the shop. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. There are several reasons why the PCM may need to be reprogrammed. Im getting a better understanding on this, now. Cookie Policy - By addressing the engine shudder 21N08 issue, the cars performance and fuel efficiency can be improved. Privacy Statement - Customer Satisfaction Program 21B10 was an extended warranty coverage on engine cam phasers on vehicles that had received a PCM reflash prior to December 31, 2021. Generally, Fords are extremely reliable vehicles and are cheap to repair. make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. Reboot. . If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. In the meantime, its important to be extra careful when driving one of these recalled vehicles. I imagine that you may get the cold start rattle and earlier cam phaser failure, but at least the engine wont shudder. Good thing I bought the extended warranty. And if you do need to restart it, make sure youre in neutral or park before doing so. This is the PCM update to prevent cam phaser rattle and will erase your tune. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -. Field Service Action: 21N08 "PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder", Yep -- what ASV said. There is a recall, Mine has the same issue with the shudder after that recall. The 21N03 was the one I was thinking of. '22 camera issue made worse by dealer and others issues not resolved. By logging into your account, you agree to our. Honestly? If your Ford vehicle is experiencing an engine shudder, its important to get it checked out by a professional as soon as possible. Sounds good to me. Sorry my Ford pass just updated and now I have the 21N08 and 21N03. Advertising - Now they say it needs another round of cam phasers. If youre a Ford owner, you may be eligible for the Customer Satisfaction Program 21B10. I an having the same issues with my 2013 f150 ecoboost 116k started about 6 months ago. Certain 2017-2020 Model Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles Equipped with a 3.5L GTDI Engine PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder ;In a very low percentage . Brought it back to the dealership and they ran the 21N08 - PCM Reprogam Due to . If a car is not regularly maintained, it can lead to problems such as the engine shudder 21N08 issue. cam phaser rattles. If it becomes corrupted or damaged, it can cause all sorts of problems including engine shudder. The Program 21N08 PCM Reprogram is designed to address an engine shudder condition on certain vehicles. Issues with IWE potentially caused by PCM Reprogram. Yep I have been told it just means that Ford is extending the warranty in regards to cam phasers to 75k I believe. We also share information about your use of our site with our social media, advertising and analytics partners. The Ford/GM 10R80 is "defective"? Reaction score. Mine doesn't die like yours, but definitely a problem there. You literally just typed back exactly what I said. UPDATE: So I talked to Ford customer service today. Summary of Related Cam Phaser Rattle Recalls: How Much Does Cam Phaser Replacement Out Of Warranty Cost? This newer field service action 21N08 software update is designed to solve the motor shuddering problem caused by the 21B10 reflash. Recall 21B10 is a campaign by the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) to recall certain models of childrens bicycles. 2015 - 2020 Ford F150 - Are CSP's only performed as needed? . Gotcha. Advertising - This just appeared in my ford pass. It may not display this or other websites correctly. If your engine does stall unexpectedly, try to pull over to a safe location before attempting to restart it. I brought my 2019 F-150 3.5 EB in for the recall. The three trucks I have looked at have had the 21N08 update, so my question is..If you were in my position, would you pull the . I also don't know if the issue with the Cap Phasers will cause other engine problems down the road. This removes the shudder. So you need to verify with your dealership with your VIN that the recall repairs have been done. You are using an out of date browser. I have used premium fuel and it didnt make any difference. call your dealer and schedule an appointment. If you have one of these bikes, you should stop using it immediately and return it to Walmart for a full refund. Reaction score. Likes: 1. . Check Gauges Light Comes On, And Car Shuts Off, Roach Getting Into Car Meme Explained: Get On This Trend. Hopefully, I'll be switching over from 11+ years of Land Cruiser and Jeep ownership. Thank you for choosing Ford! While there may be other potential remedies for the engine shudder 21N08 issue, the PCM reprogramming process is often the most effective and efficient solution. Getting the parts changed out by a poorly trained monkey when not needed is risky in my opinion. If Ford was serious about this they would offer customers compensation as Volkswagen did. The Ford/GM 10R80 is "defective"? Just extended the coverage. LOL, Ford Raptor Exterior Modifications Forum [GEN 1]. This can be caused by something as simple as a loose spark plug, or something more serious like an issue with the crankshaft or connecting rods. What is this all about? The shudder may be felt during light acceleration, at speeds between 30-40 mph, and can last for a couple of seconds. Manage Preferences - 5.7 Hemi Lifter Failure Symptoms Causes & Fixes, Lomax Tonneau Cover problems & troubleshooting, Truxedo Sentry CT Problems & Troubleshooting, UnderCover Armor Flex Problems & Troubleshooting, Retrax Bed Cover Problems & Troubleshooting, Peragon Bed Cover Problems & Troubleshooting. I was told by my dealer that any FSA'S that have a "B" in them is a fix they are required to do. The following errors occurred with your submission, Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans. Cookie Policy - Dealer will. Mine does this while at low rpms. The good news is that replacing the cam phasers will fix the cold start rattle. Originally, I understood the engine shudder to be a miscommunication between the camshaft position sensor and the PCM. So, we see that transmission issues may be the cause behind 21n08 engine shudder. Calling the dealer when I get back and having it looked at thanks for this info. If youre experiencing engine shudder in your Ford vehicle, please bring it to your nearest dealership or service center so we can take a look and get it fixed up for you as soon as possible. If your Ford Raptor is experiencing engine shudder, you may need to have the PCM reprogrammed. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -. Go back and tell the dealer is has a shudder. I was looking at another truck earlier and noticed on the Carfax it showed a "Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program Issued". In some cases, this can lead to a crash. What causes the engine shudder 21N08 issue? Your email address will not be published. I'm a long-time Ford and automotive enthusiast, and I've been writing about cars for over 10 years. Ill try to update this report in 2023 as this customer satisfaction bulletin expires. At the time I scheduled service, I clarified that whether or not my vehicle had experienced a rattle at startup, that a reprogramming would be done. I am actually looking to buy my first F150 3.5L EcoBoost, as a used truck, but have seen a lot of posts regarding the. Contact Us - If you search 21N08 you'll see that's the fix for it. Everything seems relatively fine since, no check engine lights. This PCM update is program 21B10. Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans . Generally, the timing chain, chain tensioners and water pump will be replaced at the same time, driving costs up to about $3,000. First off, be aware that CarFax may show these recalls whether or not they have been done. When the computer is programmed, it will erase this programming andthe vehicle will have to relearn your driving habits. The Program 21N08 PCM Reprogram is designed to address an engine shudder . LOL, Ford Raptor Exterior Modifications Forum [GEN 1]. Oftentimes, this engine shudder may be mistaken for a transmission shudder. The first software update was performed on my 2018 three weeks ago and did not solve the issue. Im meticulous about my oil changes, every 4000-5000 miles using Amsoil 100% synthetic. How Much Does A Powertrain Control Module Reflash Cost? Terms of Service - JavaScript is disabled. (1). Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. 14. Since we know what these issues are, you are safe to buy one of these Ford models. This can be done by a Ford dealership or an authorized service center. Be aware that your cam phaser rattle may return. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. If youve recently had your engine repaired or replaced, the new parts may not be compatible with the old PCM programming. How can I verify my PCM is extended to 70k? The truck seems to be driving fine, although I did have some cam/crank codes last month and went to dealer where they performed TSB 21-2357 and SSM 48423. How about introducing yourself in the new members section and posting a pic of your truck? Im new to my 20, is this a TSB? BUT.I have been reading a lot about the Cam Phasers issue and all of them getting the. In December, I went in for the 21b10 - PCM Program for Cam Phaser Rattle. The reprogram will update the engine control module (ECM) with new calibration files that are optimized for use with low deposit engines. That said, after some pressuring, I had a Ford technician told me that it would likely cost around $300 to run the reprogramming on your PCM if you were to bring it in outside of warranty. Terms of Service - Otherwise, further diagnostics will be required to determine cause of shudders. I will see what I can do to assist with this acceleration concern. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The engine shudders 21N08 issue is a problem that causes the engine to shake or shudder. However, for peace of mind, Ford is providing an extended warranty for customers who receive the PCM update under program 21B10 prior to December 31, 2021 and continue to experience cam phaser noise after receiving that PCM update, A cam phaser that has developed an undesirable noise does not affect the vehicle safety, performance, or emissions. That population essentially consists of vehicles that were poorly maintained or ran low on oil. Because of this issue, your engine may shake or shudder. I had the first PCM recall done too, but have an engine shudder issue. Privacy Statement - This recall affects a variety of models from the 2012-2013 model years, including the Escape, Fusion, Taurus, Flex, Explorer, and F-150. General discussion on the 13th generation Ford F150 truck. Thats why you have to take the help of a mechanic or dealership. The 21N08 update is pretty new like just a couple of weeks old, so I do not know if that will fix the engine shudder or the cold start rattle. More importantly, this recall is supposed to help extend the life of the cam phasers as demonstrated by their extended warranty coverage for vehicles that received this PCM reprogram prior to February 2022. This campaign is for vehicles that had 21B10 S2 performed and had an engine shudder afterward. Summary. Just noticed a shudder after the truck was serviced last weekend. If your vehicle is equipped with the 3.6L engine and has less than 80,000 miles, it may be eligible for a free of charge power control module (PCM) reprogramming. A manufacturer customer satisfaction program is a voluntary initiative undertaken by a company to improve customer satisfaction. So far, these recalls have been effective at solving the problem and improving customer satisfaction. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. . were completed so that you will be covered by the Ford warranty of 70k miles regarding cam phasers/VCT systems. Y'all better read that letter again. The affected vehicle exhibits a very noticeable shudder, and can be pretty concerning. At Ford Motor Company, we take vehicle safety and quality very seriously. That said, Id still check. States PCM reprogram due to engine shudder, is this anyway related to 21B03. The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) needs to have been first reprogrammed under the earlier customer satisfaction program 21B10. BUT..I have been reading a lot about the Cam Phasers issue and all of them getting the 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER update. The following errors occurred with your submission, Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans. Has anyone else experienced this after having the PCM updated? I have an appointment to drop mine off in October. In December, I went in for the 21b10 - PCM Program for Cam Phaser Rattle. There may be some less smooth shifting during this process. I brought my 2019 F-150 3.5 EB in for the recall. Once 21B10 is done, it unlocks two customer satisfaction programs 21N03 and 21N08. Later that day, it stalled again when I was at a red light. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. The Ford/GM 10R80 is "defective"? Had my cam phasers done back in July. Powertrain Control Module Reprogram for Cam Phaser Rattle, Rear Light Wiring Ford Tail Light Wire Colors, Top 6 Brake Pads for 2013 Ford F150 44: Find the Perfect Fit for Your Truck, 6 Best Mud Flaps for F150: Ultimate Guide for Truck Owners, Boost Your F150s Power: Best 9 Cold Air Intakes for 2017 Ecoboost Reviewed. Sometimes you can get a Ford for cheap because it has a cold start rattle. If the rpm is above 16-1800 it drives smooth as can be. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. The goal of a manufacturer customer satisfaction program is to increase customer loyalty and repeat business. Posts: 20. My truck has 8600 miles on it currently. Ford TSB 21N08: Technical Service Bulletin for the 2019 Ford F-150. If you know how to fix it cheaply, then you might be able to get yourself a deal. There are several F150s, Expeditions, and Navigators that needed a PCM reprogram due to an Engine shudder. Hmm very interesting perhaps I should take it in and see if they will replace mine. Dealer called and said bill would be $1200. But, this process cant be run in an unauthorized way. Hello mjpatera! If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. The vehicle is a CPO but I feel like the selling dealership didn't do a great job looking it over, so I took to a local dealer in AZ (I purchased it in UT). Manage Preferences - Proper maintenance is essential to keep a cars engine and transmission running smoothly. Strange first post. . Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Send us a private message with your F-150's VIN. (CSP 21N03 and 21N08) - Hi guys, I am pretty new F150 owner (2019 new to me bought about a month ago) and noticed on my ford pass app that I have two notices in my recalls section: CSP 21N03 CAM PHASERS and 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER. Program #21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER; . Program 21N08 will be performed if your vehicle exhibits an engine shudder during light throttle operation between 1,500 and 2,500 rpm. Engine. Now they say it needs another round of cam phasers. One potential cause of engine shudder is an issue with the PCM, or powertrain control module. I noticed mine is doing this as well. It was program #21N08 PCM Reprogram due to engine shudder. I started Fordmasterx as an effort to combine my two passions writing and car ownership into one website. We cover this rattle in detail and how to fix it for free. might be auto on/off that truck comes equipped with, There is a new Recall specifically for this. The engine shudders 21N08 issue can be caused by a variety of factors, including problems with the PCM software, issues with the transmission, or a lack of proper maintenance. Dealer called and said bill would be $1200. JavaScript is disabled. @Stevec1129 I haven't had the chance to try this yet, but I'm really hoping this new recall I see for my truck fixes the issue. One of the most common issues that you may face is to program 21n08 PCM to reprogram due to engine shudder. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -. Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts. I scheduled the initial step of the Cam Phaser Reprogramming about three weeks ago. This newer field service action 21N08 software update is designed to solve the motor shuddering problem caused by the 21B10 reflash. But unlike my previous trucks, this ones not going to be an overlander or rock crawler that needs to not leave me stranded in the middle of nowhere. If youre experiencing engine shudder, the first thing you should do is take your vehicle to a Ford dealership or authorized service center for diagnosis. Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. Fords brilliant idea was to revert the programming back to the original level. Field Service Action: 21N08 "PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder". It is difficult for me to get a price right now on the PCM reprogramming since it is still under warranty for a few more weeks, so most front-desk service advisors dont have pricing. Is this related to the cam phaser reflash FSA? X-Bull winch reviews | Where are they made? and if so an updated calibration will be applied. This condition is typically caused by the buildup of deposits on the intake valves and combustion chambers. The 21N08 PCM reprogramming is due to an engine shudder that was noticed by some customers. This can help to eliminate the engine proceed shudder. This new customer satisfaction program is designed to reverse engine shudder caused by this previous PCM calibration. Id look much closer at a CPO truck than the remaining 2nd hand market. I asked them to let me know if the Cam Phaser Rattle recall had ever been done to the vehicle and when I picked it up, they told me they did "RECALL 210B10" and the work order stated "210B10D Reprogram PCM to the latest level". I have a new to me 2017 SCREW that I purchased about a month ago. If you own a Ford vehicle, theres a good chance that it has been recalled for a PCM reprogramming. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. But what exactly is engine shudder? The PCM reprogramming process is often recommended as a solution to the engine shudder 21N08 issue. 21N08 update, So I do not know if should pull the trigger or not. Because they are such a popular model, Ford F150 owners have their own forums and subreddits devoted to their truck model. Ford is aware of this problem and has issued a recall to fix it. The PCM reprogramming process can help to prevent the engine shudder 21N08 issue from recurring in the future. Aftermarket Products, Reviews & Installation, Suggestions, Comments & Questions about the Forum, https://www.f150forum.com/f118/field6275/index148/. This can help to eliminate the engine proceed shudder. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); We use cookies to personalise content and ads, to provide social media features and to analyse our traffic. In some cases, the PCM may need to be reprogrammed in order to fix the problem. If the PCM software is incorrect or outdated, it can cause the engine to shudder or shake. The 5.4L Ford engine is a V8 that was used in many different vehicles from . Diagram. Program 21N08 Pcm Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder . I would like to hear from some of the owners which have had the 21N08 update done and see if their issues have gone away. Join Date: May 2021. By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission, which can help to eliminate the engine shudder. Took it to dealer said it was cam phaser issue again. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. The dealer will reflash the powertrain control module (PCM) with new software to fix the problem. There is a new Recall specifically for this. Replacing rear bumper trim panel - anyone had to? Thanks! Im going to try to use it as a point of negotiation. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Ford then released two further customer satisfaction programs as an extension of coverage. I appreciate the help. Took it to dealer said it was cam phaser issue again. By logging into your account, you agree to our, yes they are only done if the concern is present. Only detectable at a crawl speed. What did you do to your truck today? (CSP 21N03 and 21N08), Aftermarket Products, Reviews & Installation, Suggestions, Comments & Questions about the Forum. By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission. I have a 2018, just got the same notice. I was looking at another truck earlier and noticed on the Carfax it showed a "Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program Issued". . Location. My goal is to empower more people to be self-sufficient. Its usually most noticeable at idle, but can also be felt when accelerating. 2015 - 2020 F150 - 21N08? When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. I got it too. Detroit. to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. It is an essential part of a cars powertrain system and is responsible for managing the fuel delivery, ignition timing, and transmission shifts to ensure optimal performance and efficiency of the car. Privacy Statement - What did you do to your truck today? Symptoms of a bad cam phaser include a loud engine rattle or tick when the engine is running, a check engine light, and stalling at a red light. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. So I should probably find out what this transmission repair is. The shudder may be felt during light acceleration, at speeds between 30-40 mph, and can last for a couple of seconds. Was it stalling or did the auto shutoff just turn it off for a few seconds?
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ford program 21n08 pcm reprogram due to engine shudder 2023